574

THE COLLIERY GUARDIAN.

September 17, 1915.

Mr. H. T. Yates said he was a whole-hearted advocate
of the view that it is to the use of gas in place of solid
fuel that we must look for the solution of the smoke
problem. After giving a short resume of the present state
of development of the gas fire, he dealt with the question
of radiation, and described the efforts made to produce a
fire which should give an ample and controllable ventilation
of the room. The fire thus produced embraced a special
contrivance, by which, in injector fashion, a very large
amount of air was removed from the room. Briefly
described, this contrivance provides two outlets to the
chimney. The conformation of these and of the adjacent
parts is so proportioned, as the result of much experimental
work, that by the under outlet the entire combustion pro-
ducts are carried off, while by the upper or ventilating outlet
a large volume of ventilating air is removed, the volume
being controllable by a ventilation regulator.

The President offered some strong criticisms of the policy
of the Manchester Gas Committee in selling gas at such
prices as to allow large profits to be handed over to the
relief of rates. He disagreed with it entirely, and regarded
it as the one example of Manchester municipal control which
was open to criticism.

A number of other speakers took part in the discussion,
and dealt with other aspects of the smoke nuisance, such
as damage to vegetation and plants.

Mr. Arnold Lupton said that calculations had been made
which showed that the damage caused by smoke in Leeds
was equivalent to a rate of 6s. in the <£1, but he had also
calculated that this could be prevented for an expenditure
equivalent to only Is. in the £1. People who did not make
smoke should be rewarded, those who did make smoke should
be fined.

Several speakers supported the suggestion of Mr. Simon’s
for the appointment of a central committee to deal with the
whole matter.

Mr. A. Hutchinson (iSkinningrove Iron Works) said it
had been found possible by the combination of by-product
coke ovens and the utilisation of the spare gases from the
blast furnacse, and about 50 per cent, of the gas generated
in coke ovens, to heat up steel ingots and to roll them down
to distinct sections, i.e., joists and girders, without the use
of any further fuel, thus economising all the coal which
would be used under boilers to generate the steam to drive
steam-driven engines for rolling down. It was quite possible
by using spare gas from the coke ovens and the blast
furnaces in gas engines, instead of partly under boilers,
both to make the steel and roll it down so that the only
fuel used in such an up-to-date and modern steel or blast
furnace works would be the fuel which was converted into
coke in the coke ovens, from which by-products would be
obtained. He had recently been able to get benzine and
toluene to such an extent that his firm was now manu-
facturing T.N.T. from the by-products so obtained. He
also believed it would be possible to make steel and roll
it down in this way. They had not got quite so far as
that yet, because his firm was still using a steam-driven
plant for the blast furnaces, and was using a larger pro-
portion of gas under the boilers by about three times than
would be used if the whole gas was put into gas engines.

Mr. Walter Reid said that in dealing with smoke pre-
vention there was a danger of the advocates of various forms
of apparatus to overstate their goods, and this must be
guarded against. For instance, in a recent case in which
he intended to put in gas in some ovens he found that the
cost of putting in the piping and apparatus was three times
as large as the coal bill for one year.

The President, in winding up the debate, said that the
suggestion of a committee had been under the consideration
of the officers of Section B, and the opinion amongst them
was that the committee should have a wider scops than
to deal merely with smoke abatement, and should look after
fuel economy and the proper utilisation of coal. He thought
it was necessary to get a body of scientific opinion behind
the efforts which were being made now all over the country
to deal with the whole problem on rather wider lines than
merely from the point of view of atmospheric pollution.

Education and Industry.

Both Section G (Engineering) and Section L (Educational
Science) had the question of education and industry before
them. In Section L there was a discussion upon the matter,
but previously the question had been discussed by Dr. H. S.
Hele-Shaw in his presidential address. There was, he
said, little doubt that the subject of industrial education
needed earnest consideration. Great as had been the pro-
gress in recent years, there was a great deal to be done.
In the first place, professors and teachers of engineering
and technical subjects had to deplore the miserable previous
training of a large number of students. A large number of
thinking men were convinced that our whole education sytsem
seriously needed reform. He said this not merely in refer-
ence to scientific education and 'technical training, but to
the whole attitude of mind of the young of all classes of
the community towards the serious work of life when they
left school. There was one other matter which called for
remark. There was a great divergence of opinion concerning
the wage earning value of highly technical students. Here
again was a matter which in itself was worth a very careful
discussion. The question depended first upon the student
himself, next upon the kind of training he had had, and then
upon the nature of the work he was expected to do. The
blame in not getting the best results from a well trained
student was very often due to the employer, and the Section
might do something to bring professors and employers into
closer touch, and both employer and professor might have
something to learn from each other.

In opening the discussion in Section L, Sir William
Mather deplored the manner in which England, after
having had the earliest discoveries in science at her disposal,
first allowed the full advantage from the development of
these to be reaped by other countries, namely Germany and
America. Our present system of technical education resulted
in much of the expenditure upon elementary education being
wasted. There were something like 1,500,000 young people
between the ages of 14 and 17 years floating about in space,
all of them a prey to many evil influences, and comparatively
few were accounted for in attendances at evening classes. A
special committee of industrial and educational experts
should be appointed to deal with the whole question, and
particularly with the training of manual workers, for a large
manual population must be an essential part of our popula-
tion. He proposed that commissioners of education should
be appointed to act for a definite number of years, men
who knew nothing about party politics, instead of the present
system of having a Board of Education with a President
who was a politician. At present trades unions and

employers’ federations existed for trade self-preservation
rather than for scientific organisation, but in his opinion
there was little cause for the two elements in industry,
namely, capital and labour, to disagree. The one was
absolutely essential to the other, and they must both rise
or fall together. He did not believe in any system of fixed
wages, but believed in each individual being paid according
to his merits. Nevertheless, some standard of fixed charge
would have to be taken into account in relation to contracts.

Mr. J. C. Garnett (principal of the Manchester Municipal
Technical School) outlined a scheme of education for all
classes engaged in industry, including industrial statesmen,
designers, works managers, heads of departments, draughts-
men, foremen, leading hands, skilled tradesmen, machine
men and unskilled labourers. He said there was a growing
consensus of opinion that the time spent in the works
between school and the university should not be too much,
and universities would have to be looked to in the future
to provide men such as works managers, heads of depart-
ments, and draughtsmen. A larger proportion of students
should be encouraged to remain after taking degrees to
undertake original research work. He advocated a special
part-time course for boys from 14 to 17 years, which would,
to some extent, replace the training the old type apprentice
received from the master craftsman. He mentioned that
the Manchester Association of Engineers has certain pro-
posals under consideration in conjunction with the Man-
chester Engineers’ Club for organising the relation of the
engineering industries to the educational institutions of
Manchester. Education authorities should take steps to
see that the supply of men was sufficient for the demand,
but not too much. At present the supply was greatly below
the demand, and this was a fact which should be realised
by parents and boys.

Mr. James Graham said that industry was now experi-
encing the lack of expert technical helpers, and the present
crisis should bring the nation to recognise how essential it
was to utilise to the full native brain power in whatever
rank it is found. There were required :—(a) an extended
system of scholarship; (5) grants in aid or maintenance
allowances to enable suitable students to continue their
studies ; (c) greater endowment of research. The astounding
apathy with which English firms were accustomed to view
the highly trained expert in industry must give way to a
full appreciation of the value of trained intellect if British
industry was to flourish.

Prof. Schuster thought that in universities there is a
tendency to over-train the mind by extreme specialisation.

Prof. H. E. Armstrong argued that an educational system
should be devised for the minority rather than for the
majority, and that a few men should be selected to be
trained as leaders.

COAL MINING ORGANISATION
COMMITTEE.

DIGEST OF THE EVIDENCE.

(Continued from page 533.J

Mr. R. Guthrie.

Witness recalled that, owing to the geographical position
of the county of Northumberland, its trade was largely an
export one. In the absence of a home market for the pro-
duction, the whole industry had been organised on that basis,
and this export was of the greatest importance to the country,
especially at the present time, as it enabled us to send to other
countries an article of commerce in exchange for the food,
munitions of war, and all the other commodities which we
so urgently required. In Durham a considerable export
trade exists, but not to so great a proportionate extent as in
the adjoining county of Northumberland. The steam coal,
in view of the fact of its being far removed from the indus-
trial centres other than the Tyne, could not compete with
coal from Derbyshire, Yorkshire, and Lancashire, in those
particular districts,, by virtue of the fact that it had to be
railway borne. There was a considerable trade with London
at one time, which had practically ceased to exist. Durham
house coal was a much softer coal, and did not carry so well.
The quantity of coal which went to London in 1913 from
Bly th was 23,000 tons.

Witness added : During the second part of last year, when
we were lying idle so much owing to the impossibility of
getting orders sufficient to keep the pits working, we heard
that London was being badly supplied with coal; so I then
made it my business to try and get some orders in London.
Of course, the prices were very low, barely based on cost, to
keep the pits working; but we could not get orders. The
Londoner seems to prefer the hard Yorkshire and Derbyshire
coal. One of the reasons why it is not taken much by London
is because the merchants get their coal by rail in quantities
as they want it, and it does not undergo such extreme hand-
ling as the North country coal coming by sea. There is far
less small made. Probably you would make 20 per cent,
of small in shipment.

Mr. Rhodes : Then there is the cost of getting it out of the
ship. We went into this question a good many years ago,
with the object of endeavouring to supply coal by water
instead of by rail. But any advantage in carriage was
entirely swamped by the extra cost of dealing with it, and
the small coal made.

Mr. Warham also pointed out that the facilities for depo-
siting large quantities and dealing with them in London
were limited. There also seemed to be a lot of difficulty in
the way of its transit when it got to London. It would not
pay a colliery company to merchant the coal. Lord London-
derry had a depot in London, and actually carried out the
carting; but witness believed he had ceased that. At places
like Lord Londonderry’s depot they re-screened the coal,
and re-sorted it into different qualities. The Durham collieries
also did very little in this direction. The Hetton collieries
did not do much of a London house trade, but there was a
considerable trade with the south coast.

Mr. Kirk-up said it was the Hutton seam, a very tender
coal, and it was practically exhausted. The Yard coal was
not so good as the old Hutton seam coal; still, it was a very
fine quality.

Coming to gas coal, Mr. Guthrie said the gas companies
had been able to get all they required if they took out all
the quantities. During last year they did not take out their
contract quantities when they could have done it quite easily;
but they used up their stocks. If the curtailing of the export
of gas coal from Durham involved its being used in this
country, there might be some justification.- But if they got
this increase in the output, there would still be sufficient for
the gas companies, and yet to enable them to continue their
export. Witness went on to say : The export of coal is an

economic question, which has a very important bearing upon
the interests of the country. We require from other countries
a very large number of different kinds of produce. If you
prohibit the export of coal to those countries who are sending
us these things, you either prevent us getting those commo-
dities which we require, or you force us to pay a higher
price. So that you may be saving the pockets of the con-
sumer in one direction, but increasing his costs in another.
It is not much satisfaction to a consumer to know that he is
saving Is. on his house coal if he has to pay 2s. more for
bread. If we are sending the money, we shall have less
money to buy things that we want. The coal is our money.
Money is merely a medium of exchange. You do not buy
articles with gold. Gold is only the medium by which you
facilitate the carrying out of the exchange. It is brought in
to make up the balance of exchange. Take Denmark, for
instance. We have a large trade with that country for con-
sumable produce which is brought here to feed the country.
They had a large trade with Germany in these respects,
exchanging these things for German coal; but they pre-
ferred to send them to England in return for our coal. If
we refused to send them our coal, they would refuse to
send their produce, and would exchange it with Germany
for German coal. Denmark is one striking instance; but
you can go to other countries. We send coal to Spain, and
we get in exchange the ore which is necessary to carry on
our iron and steel industries, and is used partly in the
making of munitions of war. We send to Scandinavia for
pit timber, and we send to Italy for fruit and other articles.
It is a question of the sentiments of these other countries
as to whether they will supply us or not. • Then again,
taking Northumberland, it is quite clear we could not dispose
of our produce. If you were to restrict the exports in the
county of Northumberland, it would mean that you are not
going to increase the quantity available for use in the war,
but you are going to prevent a certain amount of production.
Would the Government then buy the coal and itself dis-
tribute it where they found it was necessary to be used?
It would be quite possible for the railway company to bring
the coal over the line from Newcastle south. Our lead to
the ports now is very short, and you can get a very large
amount of service out of the trucks. If you are going to
divert that traffic to a long lead inland, you would not have
a sufficient number of trucks to carry it out.

Mr. Warham : London seems to be practically the only
sea market that we would have, and that is very much
restricted. One of the curious things with regard to the
utility services of London is that it is rather difficult to
understand when we hear they are almost out of stocks,
considering that our collieries, both in Northumberland and
Durham, were lying idle almost up to the time of February
and certainly up to January. We can see no possible
justification for their having used up their stocks when we
were dying to give them coal. Up to August, September,
and October, steamers were hanging around and could not
get freights.

Mr. Guthrie proceeded : The home consumer frequently
looks on the production of house coal and its prices as the
most important element in connection with the coal trade.
No recent statistics are available, but in 1894 a return was
taken with respect to the county of Durham, from which
it was estimated that the proportion of house coal sold to the
total quantity of all coal disposed of was only 11 per cent.
In Northumberland, while no actual figures are available,
it can be stated that the proportion of house coal is much
less. There is no reason to believe that it has increased in
Durham. The coal owners of the two counties do not look
on the suspension of the Eight Hours Act as likely to lead
to any considerable increase in the production of coal at their
mines. The working arrangements are very elaborate, and
require considerable rearrangement to meet the conditions
laid down by the Act. Any fresh considerable disturbance
of these arrangements at this time of anxiety is to be
deprecated, and might lead to acute controversy and serious
labour difficulties. While any general rearrangement of
working hours is not to be looked for, yet a certain amount
of benefit might be obtained by a relaxation of some of the
stringent conditions ’of the Eight Hours Act. The pre-
vention of resumption of work until 16 hours after the
cessation of the last shift might be removed with advantage,
and some latitude might be allowed with regard to the
overtime which could be worked by stonemen and others
engaged in repair work while coal hewers are not in the
mine. The reduction of the number of these persons renders
it difficult to carry out the necessary work in the time
permitted, and this results in limitation of production
through the working places not being ready for the coal
hewers at their time for commencing work. Departmental
moderation rather than repeal of the Act plight be made
to meet this situation. There are questions of liberal inter-
pretation of “ emergency,” for instance. I quite agree with
previous witnesses that nothing whatever can be done except
by consent of the workmen and the employers. I am not
prepared to say whether the owners would be willing to
make any exceptional arrangement with respect to overtime
rates; there always is a difficulty with respect to overtime;
that you will always find some who do not put out their
full exertions during the day time, knowing that by working
a little in the evening they will receive pay at a higher
rate.

Witness stated that in Durham the maximum number
of hours worked was seven, except in a few collieries,
where it was arranged that it should not exceed seven
hours 10 minutes. The average time worked was consider-
ably less than that. That was bank to bank. Those in
the near-by places got out considerably under the seven
hours. He should think the average was more like six
hours 40 minutes. In Northumberland it -was a little longer,
the maximum time was 7A- hours. There were different
classes, some 6f, some 7, 7|, and 7|. The average was
perhaps a little over seven hours by two or three minutes.
In Durham, practically the whole of the county was
working three shifts. Before the Eight Hours Act
about 18 or 19 collieries on the East Coast were
working three shifts, but they were very large collieries
representing about 25 per cent, of the output of the county.
There was one working regularly four full shifts. There
was a good deal of tub loading in places, winning places,
and that sort of thing; but in addition to the coal hewers,
many other classes did not work the full eight hours. The
stonemen were working eight hours from bank to bank,
which was the full number of hours permitted by the Act.

With regard to the question of controlling the coal trade
by a central committee, witness said he had a very vivid
recollection of the efforts made in Durham. They formed
an association for the purpose of regulating the price of
coal, which continued in existence about 18 montns, but
all that time it was a matter of great difficulty to maintain
it in existence. It was impossible to get the whole of the