April 9, 1914.

THE COLLIERY GUARDIAN.

789

health. A team was called up, and naturally a man
did not like to say he was not feeling fit; he did not
like to admit he was a little bit off colour. This was a
very difficult point, and he should like to hear whether
Mr. Greatbatch had had experience on this point,
because there had been more experience in the use of
apparatus in this district than anywhere else. Their
experience had been under actual mine conditions, and
he would like to know if Mr. Greatbatch had found any
method of making quite sure that men were really fit
before they were put to work. With regard to the
trouble with the absorbent—sticky bags—referred to
by Mr. Greatbatch, that was a point that required a
great deal of investigation. It was a difficulty which
no doubt would be overcome, and at the present
moment they were making some experiments in regard
to this matter. They were attempting to use a material
for the purpose of making a sort of sponge, with the
caustic potash enclosed in it, so that as the absorbent
was used, the framework would break away and expose
a fresh surface. By this method they could use
very much less potash and use potash that was not
made up in such an expensive form. He hoped this
new absorbent would be available shortly. With regard
to sticky valves, they found this difficulty could be
overcome by washing the valves with a little glycerine
and water. In reference to the frequent use of the
by-pass, he was rapidly coming to the view that a man
who would insist on using his by-pass did it, more or
less, because of a nervous temperament. It was an
indication that he was not a fit person to continue in the
team. While, of course, it should not be put forward
that a man who used his by-pass should be turned out,
the man who unconsciously or frequently used it showed
a disposition which, to his mind, was a disposition to
inefficiency. With regard to the subject of the main valve,
the original design was certainly bad, for the valve very
easily could be turned, and efforts had been made in that
and other districts to produce an automatic arran gement or
contrivance which would prevent the valve from turning.
But he was rather inclined to think that a number of
the cases that had been put down to the valve being
closed had been really due to the man over-exerting
himself. If one had an apparatus set to give litres,
and made just temporarily a violent exertion, one got all
the discomforts of the valve being shut off. He himself
had had the experience of thinking the valve had been
shut off, when the discomfort was only due to a little
extra exertion. That happened if the men were not
trained to work with the least possible exertion. Men
using rescue apparatus should be trained to imagine they
were burglars—at least, he believed burglars did move
about with a very quiet tread and with as little muscle
movement as possible. That seemed to be the ideal
training, and that was what Mr. Greatbatch advocated
with the men under his charge. The results obtained
in North Staffordshire pointed to a most efficient
training, and reflected the greatest credit on Mr.
Greatbatch,

Mr. J. R. L. Allott also expressed appreciation of
the paper, and went on to say he was one of the unhappy •
individuals who had had to requisition the services of the
men trained at the Berry Hill Station. He should like to
add, to what Mr. Greatbatch had said, a tribute to the
prompt manner in which the men had attended when
called upon. They had occasion to call the men to a
fire at Birchenwood Colliery, and the time that elapsed
between giving the message and the arrival with the
apparatus was only 30 minutes. On the occasion of the
explosion at Norton, which was on a Saturday after-
noon, the message was sent to the rescue station at 3.30
—and at 4.30 six sets of apparatus were at the colliery,
which was a remarkable achievement for a Saturday
afternoon. With regard to the amount of oxygen, it de-
pended largely upon the individual. They could not say
that litres was sufficient for every man. When he read
his paper in London on the recovery of the Norton Colliery,
Mr. Blackett, he thought it was, suggested that one man
had bigger lungs than another. Possibly that was so, but
he knew that at Norton some worked comfortably with
1| litres, while others complained even with-If litres,
but they all worked in the pit better with 1| litres than
with the smaller quantity. The instance of the closing
of the valve at Norton was when the valves were rough
or irregular-edged. Now, he thought, they were smooth-
edged, and there was less possibility of closing the valve.
The rough-edged wheel was easily turned by contact
with the thigh. All the valves should be fitted with
smooth-edged wheels, and the valves should be a little
tight. The spring hook invented by Mr. Clifford would
prevent a recurrence of that trouble. The remarkably
good work done by the brigades was largely due to
the training of the men by Mr. Greatbatch and his
assistants.

Mr. Lovatt said, as to the quantity of oxygen, even
1^ litres was not enough for rescue work underground.
Their experience at Norton was that 1J was just enough.
He thought there were two persons underground who
used litres, and found they were comfortable with
that, but the other 13 found that litres was what
they absolutely required.

Mr. W. G. Peasegood asked Mr. Greatbatch’s opinion
as to working on the fire brigade system of keeping a
certain number of men ready at the rescue station.

Mr. N. R. H. McGowan asked how Mr. Greatbatch
would suggest a man should act supposing he was
trapped behind a fall and was waiting for relief. Should
he use the by-pass, because by taking his supply from
the main valve he would be unnecessarily wasting
oxygen. He was trained in Lancashire with the same
apparatus, and they were told to work off the by-pass
in such an emergency. Was there any objection to

the air current in very gaseous fiery mines, and such an
occurrence as might have been expected to occur in
such a case as the late Senghenydd explosion in South
Wales, if the air had been reversed.

The weight on the wire or chain of the Ramsey
arrangement is only necessary to balance a little friction
and to expedite the movement of the doors, and that
whichever door is open tightens up the connecting wire
or chain and holds the other door tight against the door
frame until the open one is closed. Nothing could be
more simple and at the same time more effective.

Such an arrangement as this would have prevented
the main separation doors in the haulage road at the
Bellevue mine, in Alberta, being propped open during
the exploration of the mine after the December 9, 1910,
disaster, which neglect* caused the deaths of one
explorer and of one miner, who had survived the first
part of the disaster.

The writer understands that the royalty payable on
this device is almost nominal, and is one of those cases
where the Government ought to step in and pay the
inventor a consideration, and give the idea free to every
mine in the country.

The thanks of the meeting were tendered to the
authors of both papers. There was a discussion on Mr.
Pilkington’s paper, which is held over until next
week.

The Charter Fund.

The Hon. Secretary (Mr. Sydney A. Smith) reported
that of the £1,263, which was the society’s share of the
fund to be raised by the Institution of Mining Engineers
in connection with the movement for obtaining a royal
charter of incorporation, £1,117 had been promised or
paid. It was hoped that the full sum would be raised
by May 1.

NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE INSTITUTE OF MINHG
AND MECHANICAL ENGINEERS.

A meeting of the members of this institute was held
on Monday evening at the new Central School of Science
and Technology, Stoke-on-Trent, where the institute is
in future to have accommodation. The new institution
includes technical schools for mining and pottery, and is
to be formally opened by the Minister for Education,
Mr. J. A. Pease, on the 20th inst. The chair was
occupied by Mr. J. Gregory, vice-president.

The Chairman congratulated the institute on having
such excellent rooms for their meeting. It was now, he
said, many years since the idea of a technical college
was first mooted, and they were pleased that the institu-
tion was shortly to be opened. They had accommodation
there for their library and also for a museum, of which
they already had the nucleus.

Training of Rescue Brigades.

A paper on the “ Training of Rescue Brigades ” (see
p. 783) was read by Mr. G. H. Greatbatch.

In the discussion that followed, Mr. E. B. Wain said
there had been substantially good work done by the
North Staffordshire brigades, and it was to the strenuous
efforts of Mr. Greatbatch that the success of their
training was due. The paper contained a good many
points that seemed to suggest weakness in the appa-
ratus, but really they all boiled down to a very simple
point—that a man should take the strictest possible care
in the handling of the apparatus. Most of the mishaps
—if they might call them such—that Mr. Greatbach had
mentioned had been due to the men tampering with
their main valve, and they were pleased to know that by
a simple contrivance that interference had been made
impossible. The work that had been done with the
apparatus in that district, they had been told more than
once, had set up a world’s record, and that in itself was
evidence that the training in North Staffordshire had
been efficient.

Prof. John Cadman, D.Sc., said he could not help
but express his appreciation of the paper, which brought
forward really practical points in connection with the
manipulation of the apparatus—points that were of the
utmost value. The course of training Mr. Greatbatch
had formulated was a commonsense and practical
course and one that had produced efficient men. There
were two points that appealed to him very seriously in
connection with the use of the apparatus, both of which
points Mr. Greatbatch had dealt with. The first was
the thorough testing of the apparatus and the testing
of the men, and the second was efficient training. With
regard to testing the apparatus, Mr. Greatbatch had
given at some length very valuable information
regarding the way in which tests were undertaken by the
members of the brigades even before they entered upon
the work. There was one test that had been found of
the utmost use in connection with the tests for leakage.
It was one, no doubt, that Mr. Greatbatch was aware
of, though be had omitted to mention it. It was sucking
at the bag to ascertain whether it was airtight. If one
sucked the air out of the bag, and it was airtight, the
mouthpiece stuck to the tongue. The men had con-
fidence in this test, and though it might not be abso-
lutely reliable for all sources of leakage, it was one that
could be easily applied. The point with regard to the
testing of the men was more important. The human
element varied. A man might be perfectly fit at one
stage of the training and at another he might go off.
It was a very difficult matter to know how one might
arrive at a knowledge of efficiency in regard to

working off the by-pass ? He believed Mr. Greatbatch
made a rule not to do so.

Mr. Adams asked if some other form of goggles could
not be provided, because the present form almost
prevented one seeing anything and did not keep out the
fumes. If the gtfggles were tightened up to keep out
the fumes to any extent, the intense headache produced
prevented a man from really keeping his mind on his
work.

The Chairman (Mr. J. Gregory) said he was pleased
Mr. Great batch’s paper had evoked such interesting
remarks, and that those who had had experience of
wearing the apparatus in the pit had joined in the
discussion. The points raised by Mr. Greatbatch might
appear minor ones, but, at the same time, if these
mishaps occurred away in the pit in an atmosphere that
would not support life, they might easily have a fatal
termination. Mr. Greatbatch had done a public service
in drawing attention to them and showing how they
might be avoided. His observations ought to be care-
fully studied by overy member of rescue brigades.

A hearty vote of thanks was accorded to Mr. Great-
batch for his paper, on the proposition of Mr. A. M.
Henshaw, seconded by Mr. G. P. Hyssop, and
supported by Prof. Cadman, each of whom paid a high
tribute to the practical value of the contribution.

Mr. Greatbatch, after acknowledging the vote of
thanks, replied to points raised in the discussion. As to
the goggles, there was no doubt they were unsatisfac-
tory, and he said so in his paper. It was a trouble
that was very difficult to deal with. Of course, there
was no necessity to wear goggles unless there was smoke,
and he was absolutely certain that if there were much
smoke, rescue brigades were useless, whether the men
wore goggles or not. Mr. McGowan referred to the use
of the by-pass. He knew it was the practice in the
district he (Mr. McGowan) came from to instruct the
men to close off the main valve for the purpose of
holding on to the oxygen. Personally, he did not agree
with that at all. When they had the number of men to
deal with that they had, he did not think they should
put this possible source of danger in their hands. If he
were only dealing with Mr. McGowan or other colliery
managers, he might say, “ It is up against you to deal with
this valve as you like,” and the result might be a success,
but it was very questionable. If something happened,
and one got excited and forgot he had turned his valve
off, before he knew anything about it, he would be gone.
The valve should be set, and put out of the control of
the man, either to close it for the purpose of holding
on to his oxygen supply, or to open it in order to give
him more. He thought the by-pass should only be used
for the purpose of increasing the supply. He said in
his paper that it was the practice at the gallery to give
1J litres, and in actual pit work to 2 litres. They
found it was necessary to give more in actual work than
in practice work; that was discovered at Norton, and
at the request of the inspector, Dr. Cadman and Mr.
Henshaw, he altered the supply. He had also given
them an instance where work was done at a colliery,
and the men complained that the supply was
excessive. Personally, he did not think, however
much they increased the oxygen supply, they would get
more strenuous work; by requiring more strenuous
work, they would be bound to bring a man down.
Moreover, he felt quite sure they could not fix the
amount of oxygen to suit all men; what was sufficient
for one man was too little for another. It was identi-
cally the same with the caustic soda. He was examining
part of a team on the previous Wednesday, and he
found that the caustic soda in the bag that one man
had used was like putty, and the instructor said it had
been like that at every training. The other bags were
in ordinary condition. With regard to Mr. Peasegood’s
suggestion, he did not see how they could make it a
success by having a limited number of men trained and
kept like a fire brigade. In the case of one station he
had been told that 24 men had been trained for this
purpose. He, however, did not see how 24 men could
be sufficient in case of a disaster, because they could not
expect men to do more than two hours’ work. Even if the
oxygen would last longer, the caustic soda would be done ;
in fact, men must not be at work more than two hours.
He should be very glad if Dr. Cadman’s ideas with
regard to preventing sticky bags matured and became
a success, because there was no doubt about it that the
caustic soda was much more the limit of the time of
working than the oxygen. After about two hours there
was generally plenty of oxygen left, but the caustic
soda was in such a state that if a man kept on, he was
bound to collapse. Dr. Cadman’s test for leakage was
quite right, but it was one they did not adopt, and
that was why he did not mention it. Dr. Cadman
also spoke of testing the men. He (Mr. Greatbatch)
held very strong opinions about that, and thought the
men should be examined periodically. He also held the
opinion that they had too many men trained. Having to
depend upon volunteers, they did not have the selection
of the men; and if he had the opportunity of picking
them out, he should discard a certain number. They
did their work all right, but they were wanting in some
respects ; some of them, for instance, used the by-pass
too many times. He could make more efficient brigades
by a process of selection, and they would certainly never
need the number of men they had. They would have
to do something to see that the men .remained physically
fit ; there should be a medical examination every
12 months. If they had fewer men, they would have
more efficient brigades, because the selection would be
stricter.